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are all of these have the same meaning?

lizzette
102 posts
Sep 05, 2008
2:36 AM
Are all of these have the same meaning?

1. Don't patronize me.
2. Don't belittle me.
3. Don't under estimate me.


I want to know the meaning of "Don't patronize me."

Thanks

Sparky
803 posts
Sep 05, 2008
6:59 AM
No they don't have the same meaning.

Dictionary.com defines this use of "patronize" as behaving in a condescending manner. Let's see if I can explain the different meanings by insulting you. (Forgive me.)

Lizette: My English is improving every day.

Patronizing response: Yes, yes, of course it is. Why, you'll be teaching it soon. (Smiles, rolls eyes.) You're so cute.

Belittling response: Improving? Well it must have been pretty bad to begin with! You're not smart enough to learn English.

Response that underestimates you: Yes, it's improving, but I hope you realize that you'll never be really good at English because you started too late.

Lizette, these are just examples, honest! Your English is excellent.

Pogo
583 posts
Sep 05, 2008
11:39 AM
It's certainly better than my French, German, Italian, and Spanish! But "Are all of these have the same meaning?" should be "Do all of these have the same meaning?"

When an English sentence asks a question, the verb itself still follows the subject (English does not usually reverse the order of subject and verb to make a question now), but the appropriate form of "to do" is put before the subject. In present tense and past tense, but not in the compound tenses (future and the perfect tenses), where the auxiliary verb that makes the tense compound does reverse order with the subect.
Does this make it clear?
Have I helped?
Can you tell me if I explained well? (Hm! Another exception, for the incomplete verb "can.")

Pogo

lizzette
103 posts
Sep 16, 2008
11:15 PM
@Pogo Thank you for correcting my English. Actually, I didn't realize that it was grammatically wrong because I just composed it. I thought it was understandable. One of my weaknesses in English is "correct" grammar composition. I'm always confused when I'm using "Do/does/did, are/were/ is/was has/have" in a question. When to use "Do" or "Are" or "Have" in a question... Maybe, I just forgot the rules. It is really hard to learn English on you own especially if you don't really speak the language. And if you have so many wrong ideas (theories or rules) about English that you are still correcting those wrong "stored knowledge". I hope you understand what I mean. Please bear with me.

Last Edited on 16-Sep-2008 11:22 PM

lizzette
104 posts
Sep 17, 2008
12:08 AM
@Sparky I don't think we "roll our eyes" to show an expression. What are you trying to express when you roll your eyes? When you roll your eyes, are you trying to praise someone but sarcastically? Is that what you mean when you say that you "smile, roll eyes"? We sneer (or snob with the use of eyes only) and smile sarcastically but we don't roll eyes.

I'm still confused. Maybe they don't have the same meaning but they imply or suggest the same reaction.

I googled it: What is the meaning of 'Don't patronize me'?and in what context is it used? Pls show example.

answers:
1. dont talk to me as if i know nothing or do not know what you are talking about.

Basically its talking to someone as though they were not capable of comprehending what you are saying.

2. Do not treat me condescendingly. In other words, dont treat me as if your a better then me.

3.It's, basically, a thing that a lot of self-respecting people would say to you if they felt you were "looking down your nose" at them, so to speak.

For example, if I were to ask you - "...; so, this is what it is. Do you understand?" and then "Do .... and it'll be done, OK?" ... You'd get the feeling that I actually feel that you are not capable of understanding and I need to check if you do. Which is "looking down my nose" at you. Then, you'd say -"For God's sake, I'm not a complete fool! Please don't patronize me!"

4. The word "patronize" means be condescending to: to treat somebody as if he or she were less intelligent or knowledgeable than yourself. An example would be where someone states the obvious and makes it seem as if you didn't know.

5. Don't treat me as a child or as if I'm someone lesser than you.

6. example1: You are in a beauty shop, the beutician says "Oh honey, I can help you out! (As though you had such terrible hair or whatever, that only she can make it look better.)
That would be a condescending attitude and the customer would be thinking, don't patronize me!

example2: "Don't patronize me, I can walk," says the parapalegic when met with people who want to "do" for things he can manage on his own.


Does "Don't patronize me" mean "Don't treat me as if I'm stupid"?

And "Don't belittle me" and "Don't underestimate me" mean the same?

belittle: Merriam Webster dictionary

verb
2 : to cause (a person or thing) to seem little or less

underestimate: Merriam Webster dictionary

transitive verb
1 : to estimate as being less than the actual size, quantity, or number
2 : to place too low a value on : underrate


Mudge, sorry for the long post!

Sparky
805 posts
Sep 17, 2008
6:41 AM
Lizzette,

Sorry I confused you. I think you have understood correctly. You have defined "patronize" pretty well. It does mean to treat someone with condescension. Your example of helping a handicapped person who does not need or want help is good. Also, responding to someone as you would a child is another example.

I'm sorry I confused you with "roll your eyes." Yes, it indicates sarcasm. Doing this after complimenting someone would sort of be a signal to others that you didn't really mean what you just said.

Speaking broadly, the terms patronize, belittle, and underestimate are all used the same way. That is, they are all ways to insult someone and possibly hurt their feelings by saying or implying that the person is not good enough. But let me give you an analogy. You can shoot someone, or you can stab someone, right? You will hurt (and possibly kill) them either way. Guns and knives are both weapons, but a gun and a knife are not the same thing.

The problem with explaining the difference between patronize, belittle, and underestimate is that they are different things, but you can do more than one of these at the same time.

If you are better at something than I think you are, I have underestimated you. When you say "Don't underestimate me," you are simply saying "I may be better than you think I am." There need not be any insult here. I simply didn't realize how able you are. You surprised me. This is just the same as (for example) underestimating how many cups we need for our party. I bought 25 cups but we needed more. I didn't buy enough because I underestimated the need. I assumed I could run faster than you, but you beat me. I underestimated you.

But to patronize or to belittle someone is always insulting. I patronize or belittle you because I underestimate you. Patronizing and belittling are not the same thing, but it is possible to do both at the same time, and it is not easy to find a simple clear example illustrating the difference.

You can patronize someone without intending to. For example, that person who runs to help the handicapped person is only trying to help. But the handicapped person is annoyed and may be insulted. Maybe the "helpful" person should have been more sensitive, but he is probably just trying to be nice. But you can patronize someone on purpose, talking down to them as though they were a child when you actually know better.

Belittling someone is almost always done purposefully, and it is mean. (I say "almost" because it's possible to blurt out something we didn't mean to say.) To belittle someone is to say insulting things and try to make them feel ashamed or embarrassed.

This is how I came up with my examples about insulting your English. "Oh, your English is perfect. You're almost a professor!" This is patronizing because you know it isn't true. Maybe I know that you know it isn't true, in which case I'm being sarcastic (and rude) or maybe I think it will make you feel good to hear this, but it doesn't because you know better and are not fooled.

"You are too stupid to learn English" is belittling because it is simply an insult. It not only insults your command of English, it insults you as a person by calling you stupid.

"You started studying too late to become good at English" is giving my opinion of your ablities. Maybe it's not true. Maybe I'm underestimating you when I say this.

Last Edited on 18-Sep-2008 5:26 AM

Pogo
598 posts
Sep 19, 2008
2:08 PM
Lizette, what other languages do you speak? French, perhaps? I remember having to memorize which French verbs used etre and which used avoir in passé composé. There was no logic to it!

In English, "to be," "to do," and "to have" all have different functions when used with another verb. Would you like for me to try to explain?

lizzette
105 posts
Sep 27, 2008
11:35 PM
@Pogo I only know some basic French like "bonjour", and "merci beau coup" etc. and some basic Spanish like "muchos gracias" , "muy bien" and "si" etc. So if you're going to explain it to me it in french probably I won't understand it either. But if you have time to explain to me in English about the functions of the verbs "to be", "to do" and "to have" with another verb, please do so to my other post "about "Do all of these have the same meaning?"". Thank you

Thank you also Sparky, I think I get it now(about "Don't patronize me.").